Talk:Helios

Apollo replaced

why can't they have Apollo instead because Helios is a Titan. Apollo should have been killed in God of war 3 instead by Kratos that way the clouds block the sun.

--JarodMighty (talk) 16:26, July 2, 2015 (UTC)

Well Apollo is mainly the god of music, archery, and healing. Helios is literally the sun.

Reverting

Alright, is there a problem with my streamlining the page to not be a bloated mess? I already cleared it with the boss if that's the issue. Byzant (talk) 15:27, April 26, 2017 (UTC)

The issue is that you are removing a lot of stuff that provides background and detail, what you call "a bloated mess" provides more interesting pieces to the page. The parts about Powers and Abilities are something that most other pages have, so removing it unbalances it, and I personally can't think why it would even be sensible to. Though with Helios we don't see as much about what he can or cannot do, other people who have contributed have made sound hypotheses on what what Helios could've done that we don't see from what we do. My take is that what you see as a streamlined form of this page, was a page that looked like it needed more work, and also I personally contributed on something on this page, so I feel a bit protective. All in all, what exactly is wrong with this page to you? What about it feels like too much? Because I've always liked wiki pages giving as much information and ideas as possible, isn't that the point to them, give as much insight as possible?Loving servant (talk) 22:49, April 26, 2017 (UTC)

There are two major problems with this page (and the other pages for the gods, I'm not singling out Helios'):

1. Constant repeating of the plot.

Every single page for a god that appears in 3 recaps the story, and then the page "Gods" recaps it again. And then the "Titans" page recaps it yet again. And "Kratos" recaps it too. And then there's "Second Titanomachy" to recap again. And "The Cycle of Patricide" to do it again. And of course, the actual page for God of War 3 needs it. And then anywhere anybody wants to type out sixteen paragraphs they recap, recap, recap. It's excessive to have so many pages like that, it's excessive that every page with the recaps goes into the same high level of detail, and most of that detail isn't even that relevant to a page that's supposed to be more focused.

2. People making up stuff.

I agree there's a place for a "Powers and Abilities" and I was overzealous in removing it, but all the "possibly" and "maybe" and "it is likely" has got to go. "Sound hypothesis" means nothing if it's not actually in the games this wiki is meant to be a reference for.

I can easily make up a whole story about how Persephone's death in CoO broke her mother's heart so Demeter let the earth fall barren and Zeus had to intervene and strip her of her title and give it to Hera and that's why Hera's death causes plants to die in 3, but that isn't God of War. That's God of War fanfiction. Perfectly sound, well-reasoned, based on mythology and what the game's characters are shown to do fanfiction, but it's still fanfiction.

We should present the facts of the series as-is, and not invent explanations to patch plotholes, or worse, just to speculate with no purpose beyond speculation (like what other powers a god may or may not have in-series). Unless one of us actually worked on the games, we aren't qualified for that.

I don't mean to come off as an asshole either, I just want to make this wikia clear, concise and accurate. Byzant (talk) 02:23, April 27, 2017 (UTC)

With Demeter's page you were very correct in changing it, but what is on this page, and on most others, is no different than what is on other wikis. I see you're point, but I disagree it being a big issue, this site is created by fans of the game and I feel letting people put up accurate or likely information that involves the character/item/category, etc. adds more to the wiki and makes it more interesting. An example among multiple pages is the "X God/Goddess was infected by X Evil"-We only get one Evil spoken of directly (or maybe not so directly, I haven't played God of War 3 so I don't know if they outright state "Zeus was infected by the Evil Fear" at some point or just imply it by saying "fear consumed him" or something...) and we can see that in Zeus' actions throughout the games, but, with a God like Hermes, we do not get one stated, but it is easy for people to recognize a likely Evil, since it leads almost directly to his death, Pride, which we recognize in his arrogance in not simply fleeing and more importantly not taking challenging Kratos seriously when Hernes really should've known better (he doesn't pay attention enough to react quickly despite his speed to avoid the rock that Kratos flings at him, his not using his speed or distance to more seriously attempt to kill Kratos, and his constant mockery plus stopping to let Kratos almost catch up without actually doing anything else reeks of overconfidence and self-absorption). An example of an implied part of the game is who wrote the notes Kratos' finds in the Underworld, and based on the contents, we can gather his mother, the boat captain, et cetera, even though it is not confirmed anywhere in the game that I know of, so is that "fanfiction" and should those be removed and are we not qualified to voice our speculations? I suppose you could say that with it being more intentionally obvious who wrote what and a clear part of the game it doesn't count, but I see little difference as both exampes require speculation no matter how little, as there is no clear statement one way or another. In the end though, I suspect all this is moot, as you feel the wiki should be more concise and boiled-down to just clear facts and have no extra details at all as you feel it is unnecessary, and myself and others feel it adds more to the wiki as an expression of both what is obvious in the game and what is likely but not confirmed outright (as long as that lack of 100% confirmation is stated that is) and I at least will correct any such changes to this page and any others I find that I feel need those extras. If you have an example of "inventing things to patch plot-holes" I'd like to hear it though, as that would be out of place. Loving servant (talk) 10:13, April 27, 2017 (UTC)

How do you even know Pride is an Evil? Athena only mentions Fear, Greed and Hate. That's the kind of thing I'm talking about - some person goes "it's likely that" and then somebody else comes along and goes "oh, well then it's likely that". And then you've got entries for the gods making up Evils to infect them with and wondering if Aphrodite is infected with Lust or just the Goddess of Love when there's no evidence Lust even exists.

With things like god powers, the Poseidon page has completely made up Poseidon getting weaker the farther he gets from the sea. And then with all the damn speculation you get entries like "it is unknown why this god didn't use the power made up right here on this wikia page to fight Kratos".

The Apollo and Artemis pages used to have speculation on why they didn't get involved in GoW3, until I cleaned them up. Byzant (talk) 13:23, April 27, 2017 (UTC)